Podcasts are one of my favorite things to be on (and listen to). The reason is simple.
Before hitting record, you usually have what appears to be random banter with the hosts. For me, this is the best part of the show. In some cases, it’s even better than the actual show.
It also sets the tone for how the show will go. On the close to 300 podcasts I have done (~270 of which as a host), the “before-we-hit-record” part makes or breaks the show.
This is top of mind for me because I’m going on podcasts to promote my book, The Male Friendship Experience, and it got me thinking about something that I feel is the hallmark of male friendships—those moments in between.
The Seemingly Random Moments of Nothingness
The reason the “before-we-hit-record” moments are so magical is that there is no performance going on. You are literally trying to get a sense of who the guest is and see if you might connect. It’s like watching an episode of Seinfeld. Things are going on, but it seems to be a show about nothing, and that’s what the in-between moments are all about.
Don’t get me wrong. A podcast episode can capture that. Most podcasts that entertain and educate can capture those in-between moments before you hit record, but some of them build their whole show around it. This is especially true for comedy podcasts like Bad Friends.
It’s More Than a Bit
Bobby Lee and Andrew Santino have known each other for years. There is nothing fake about their banter or friendship underneath the show, but as professional comedians, the show is polished into punchlines, pacing, and callbacks of some of their funniest and worst moments in life. They have a real bond, and that’s why it works so well. Yes, it’s a bit extreme and always chasing the punchline, but guests and staff genuinely enjoy themselves.
Andrew Schulz’s Flagrant is similar in that it’s comedy but with more of a guys hanging out in a lounge type of vibe. The regulars often bust each other’s chops, but the overall tone is more learning and hanging out than put-downs. The guests are more eclectic, the topics more broad, and the vibe, while comfortable, can be confrontational.
Both of these show male friendship in a fun, locker-room, bust-my-chops kinda vibe, which is real and entertaining yet is only part of the story.
Deep Dive Into the Bro Science
On the other side, you have got the data/Bro Science pods. Chris Williamson’s Modern Wisdom is the best of these types. Male connection gets more studied (among other things). Things are broken down into frameworks. Loneliness statistics are reviewed. Concepts like attachment theory are discussed. There are real insights being discussed. The rapport with guests and recurring guests feels real, especially the Rabbit Hole episodes where it’s a bunch of guys jaw-jacking about seemingly random stuff—some of which is downright nutty, like the Uber Eats to OnlyFans pipeline.
Each one of these types of shows is legitimate. Neither one is lying to you. Both types show what male friendship is like when an audience is laughing or taking notes. They have in-between moments because that’s part of the show. What is hard for them to show is the experience when the cameras are not rolling, which is what I always loved about doing podcasts.
Before We Hit Record
That phrase is something I have said and heard often. It’s the in-between that gives you a true sense of what the recorded show is going to be like. I got to experience this firsthand recently, being on two podcasts that, while not the big audience of the ones above, were a closer glimpse into friendships between men.
#1 Podcast for People is one of those shows that’s truly the definition of the in-between. Its hosts, Gator and Sliceburg, are good friends who work together at a pizza place in Gainesville, FL, called Satchel’s (Gator owns it).
The absolute randomness of this podcast truly shows what two guys (and field reports from listeners) are doing as they go about their day. When I mean go about their day, I mean the random school pickups, travel on airplanes, and road trips that make up the in-between of friendship and connection. It’s close to if Seinfeld were based in Florida at a pizza parlor with artwork everywhere.
Equally insightful is 3 Dimensional Dads, hosted by Jay, Derrick, and Ian, three dads who love nerding out on Star Wars, video games, and everything in the Marvel universe. While different in tone and tenor (they talk about the benefits of therapy and their struggles), it’s another glimpse into three good friends supporting each other.
Even how all of them met is the classic in-between moment. Jay and Derrick met at a midnight screening of “Star Wars: Episode III” (back in 2005) because they both got there early. While waiting around for the show to start, Jay, who was sitting behind Derrick, quips, “I hope this doesn’t suck.” To which Derrick replied, “Me too.” Ian found Derrick and Jay through his wife as she was walking their dog, Leia, and running into Jay’s wife walking their dog, Spidey. Obviously, with dog names like that, their husbands had to meet. Talk about random in-between moments.
It’s About Showing Up, Day After Day
All of these podcasts demonstrate something that’s critical to maintaining a friendship—showing up to someplace where someone will miss you if you’re not there. It’s this combination of regular interactions and the in-between that creates the ties that bond men. If you listen to these shows, yes, you’ll find some deep and difficult conversations, but what you’ll find more is friends caring about each other by dealing with the joy, sorrows, and absurdity of life. That seems to be the secret to lasting male friendships.
